It's 10am and the phone rings.  For a moment I wonder who might have the cheek to disturb me during these precious morning hours before I remember why I was awake in the first place.  In one word: Finsterer.  In two words: Jack Finsterer.  In eleven words: Jack Finsterer, star of the powerful new Aussie war film Kokoda.  The soothing voice of somebody who'd been awake a lot longer than me introduced Jack, and it was like we'd known each other for years...

JACK: Gday, how you going?

ME: Good Jack.  Yourself?

JACK: Alright!

ME: My name’s Luke by the way. 

JACK: Yes, yes I know.  Luke Buckmaster, is that it?

ME: Wow, you’ve done your research.

JACK: Oh, I know all about you.

ME: That’s supposed to be my job.

JACK: I know you work for In Film Australia.

ME: That’s true, that’s true.

JACK: And I know you’re name’s Luke Buckmaster

ME: (laughing)

JACK: Is that enough?

ME: Er, favourite food?

JACK: Favourite food .. oh gee I was gonna stay steak but I think you might be a hokkien noodle kind of guy.

ME: Oooooo, close.  It’d say steak might be … no, I’d say Italian food.  How about you mate?

JACK: Oh god, you know it always depends on the mood.

ME: Yes, yes…

JACK: It’s too interesting and varied a subject to limit myself to the one thing, and it would depend on the restaurant too.  But I love a wide selection. I like to mix it up a bit.

ME: Mix it up a bit?

JACK: Mmm.

ME: Well that sounds pretty good.  Am I the first off the bat today Jack?

JACK: No, you’re the third.

ME: The third, wow…

JACK: Sorry mate.

ME: No it’s ok.  What are you apologizing for?

JACK: Well I don’t know, I just don’t know whether first is better for you or…

ME: Well, you know, I did have my heart set on being first. 

JACK: Yeah well, it’s ten o clock! Come on!

ME: Could I ask that question again and you can sort of maybe humour me?

JACK: (laughing)

ME: So Jack, um, I’m first off the bat today, that’s right yeah?

JACK: Yeah you are Luke.  In fact we deliberately pushed people back so that you’d be first cab off the rank.  And you’re the first of how many…10 or 15.  10 I think. Something like that.

ME:  Blowing through the old publicity whirlwind?

JACK:  Yeah! It’s interesting, you’ve got no idea – or I had no idea – how many media outlets there are out there.  In particular Queensland because it’s such a big place every town has its own radio station.  Some of it is syndicated, but a lot of it isn’t.  You’ve just got to get up there and work.  Which is good you know, when you’re working for a film like Kokoda, one that I had such a fantastic experience on from beginning to end.  It’s one of the pleasures to get out there and say to the rest of the country that this is worthwhile having a look at.

ME:  Absolutely.  I think it’s a very strong film and it’s very strongly performed.  So well done!

JACK:  Thank you very much. 

ME:  What was the most memorable moment of being on location in Queensland?

JACK:  In terms of the actual shooting?

ME:  Yeah. What was most memorable?

JACK:  The singular moment?

ME:  Yeah. 

JACK:  I think, without giving too much away, it’s the opening shot of the film where I come out of the mud.  That was a really intense day because the previous week it had been really hot, in the mid thirties with no wind.  It was really, really hot, and then the temperature plummeted on that particular day.  That rain that you see was real rain, and I spent twelve hours being submerged into four feet of mud and just holding my breath under there until that guy came and plucked me out of it.  So that was a very intense day’s filming. 

All the extras stood there in the rain walking up and done for twelve hours!  None of them moaned, none of them complained - they just wanted to be there.  I’d chat to them and ask them how they were going, and they just wanted to be there because of the story.  Like all of us.  Essentially we wanted to be there because of the story.  It really bonded everybody.  Shooting that particular scene was kind of the best and worst of the story, because it was so tough.  And that’s how I wanted the shoot to be: I wanted it to be as physically tough as it could be to help me get into character, help me get into the environment the Diggers were in and help me get into the whole mindset.  So I loved it, but at the end of the day I’d have so much mud in my eyes I couldn’t see anything.  I needed to keep washing my eyes in between takes.

ME:  Jeepers.

JACK:  Yeah, and on the last take little things kept going wrong.  Like there was so much mud that mud would keep getting thrown on the lens.  I’d move my hand and mud would go everywhere and it would ruin the take.  Just all these little things…

We blew the camera up after the last take and we couldn’t do any more and we didn’t know whether we had the shot or not.  So we left that day not knowing.  It was full of tension and laughter and all of us going “this is crazy, what are we doing, rolling down hills…”  I wasn’t acting there.  It was so slippery I was just trying to get off any way I could.  I was just trying to stand up so that we could have the shot completed.  That was the defining moment for me. 

ME:  While you were caked from head to toe in mud, did any thoughts flicker through your mind like “hey, isn’t exactly where I envision myself as an actor?”

JACK:  No, when I read the script that’s exactly where I envisioned myself.

ME:  (laughing)

JACK:  It was the opposite of all that.  It was like, this is exactly where I want to be.  A lot actors in this country and worldwide don’t get an opportunity to tell important stories like this one. 

ME:  Absolutely.  But often in war films you get a real gung-ho sense of patriotism.  Did you have any concerns about that sort of thing?  I mean what do you think about war films in general?  I’d say that most of them aren’t nearly as delicate or as smart as Kokoda.

JACK:  Yeah I’d agree with you.  I never wanted to play the character of Jack Scholt as some sort of steel jawed guy who marches into the face of the enemy…I’ve never been to war – touch wood.   But none of the things the veterans talk about mention that kind of steely-eyed action hero kind of stuff.  It’s not the way I read the script and not the way I wanted to think about it.  I think it’s far more heroic to look at the tension and look at the courage they had to have, or how scared they might have been.  I wanted to investigate that side of it. 

ME:  Do you think the film has a message about war?  What do you think it’s trying to say?  That these are men who have to accept a situation and fight as honourably as possible in a pretty immoral situation?

JACK:  I think the message the film has is that sometimes we are all placed in extraordinary situations and we have to step outside of ourselves.  Most people don’t’ want to go to war.  These men had to look inside of themselves and for the sake of the country and themselves they had to step forward and do things they probably didn’t think they were capable of, time and time again.

ME:  Do you think being part of the film has given you a more clearer understanding of what it would be like in a war-time situation?

JACK:  Well…I’d like to think so but I’d never presume. When I was doing my reading for Kokoda I could not believe what these men went through, it was actually beyond my imagination.  I just could not believe the situation these men found themselves in.  You just can’t underestimate what it would have been like for those men.  So I like to think I have a better understanding but to be honest with you I would never presume.  By working on the film I think all the cast and crew were affected, and we tried to get to the heart of exactly what that experience would have been like on the track.  I didn’t want to leave anything in the locker, as they say, I wanted to squeeze the experience for everything it was worth.

ME:  Kokoda certainly feels like an authentic film.  As you say you wouldn’t want to presume that that was exactly what it was like being at war but it definitely rings very true.

JACK:  And I think that’s important too, because we’re making this film so that younger generations can get a tangible sense of what the Kokoda story is all about. Everyone has heard of it, it kind of sits in the back of peoples minds and now hopefully people will go and see it.  In the film you can almost smell the jungle and the claustrophobia and the ruggedness of the terrain.

ME:  Yeah, from the film you get a really strong sensory association with the experience.  In fifty years time they may well study the film at schools.  I’m sure they will be.

JACK:  Let’s hope so. 

ME:  About the Japanese troops.  These people who were barely trained at all found themselves against the Japanese army, a very stealth, covert and professional militia outfit. 

JACK:  Yeah they were the best troops Japan had to offer and they had swept down through Asia and hadn’t been defeated.  They were very confident and well organized and wore uniforms that were designed for jungle fighting.  Whereas the Aussies turned up in their desert gear. 

ME:  That’s’ right, that’s right.

JACK:  The whole organization of it from the Australian point of view left a lot to be desired.

ME:  Just in shambles, yeah.  I’m interested to know what your opinion is of the way the film represents the Japanese troops.  I have a couple of ideas myself but I’m interested to hear what you think.

JACK:  Well, we don’t really see it from a Japanese point of view.  In that sense I think the film works because, and I got a lot of this from my readings too, the Japanese troops and the jungle almost become a singular, conjoined enemy if you like.  So from a filmic point of view I like the way that happens.  It really locks me into the experience of our characters.  That translates well from my research too because a lot of the Diggers didn’t even see the enemy.  Know what I mean?

ME:  So we don’t see the enemy, and they didn’t really either?

JACK:  Exactly.  So from that kind of representation I think the film works pretty ideally and I think represents the experience of the Diggers.  Also hopefully it keeps the audience kind of guessing a little bit as well.

ME:  That’s true.  It’s definitely a very depersonalized enemy.  But I never actually thought it might be that it’s the same for the troops fighting – they didn't’ get to see their faces either. 

JACK:  I’m sure they did on some occasions.  They just didn’t know where they were coming from.  You can see that in some aspects of the film too, where a guy pops up that you just didn’t see.  When you saw the film’s first death when the guy gets his throat cut, did you know or expect the Japanese troop to be lying there?

ME:  No, I think from memory he just came out of nowhere. 

JACK:  Yeah and that was a feature of the film and a feature of the fighting up there. 

ME:  Scary stuff.  So for your research for the role you met veterans and did some reading?

JACK:  Yeah it was a really quick turn around.  Like everything with this film – it was all happening on the fly! I did my first audition I think on a Monday, got a call back on the Saturday and the following Monday I was offered the role.  So it was really quick.  I think two or two and a half weeks later I was in Queensland.  As soon as I was offered the role I said to Alister (Grierson, the film’s director) where do I start?  Where did you start your research?  And he directed me to Peter Brune.  He’s an author whose written two books, ‘A Bastard of a Place’ and ‘Those Ragged Bloody Heroes.’  They’re terrific books with quite a lot of detail in them so I read those and other books…We also had a lot of audio tapes from interviews with Diggers, and then of course we met the Diggers of the 39^th Battalion.  To actually meet the members of the battalion we were able to put human faces onto the stories and that really brought it all home.  People come out of the woodwork too, I’ve talked to lots of different people about their families, or people they know.  I was amazed how close this is for some people.  I think it’s at the back of peoples minds for a lot of Aussies. 

ME:  Because it’s not some ancient war…

JACK:  No, and I think that’s why it’s really vital too.  Because this is still in people’s memories – a lot of these Diggers are still alive – and it was just in New Guinea, it wasn’t over in the Middle East.  It wasn’t in France or Belgium.  It was just off our North Coast.  I mean these guys could have been home in a day or half a day or something. 

ME:  War movies tend to be inherently political.  Were you concerned about the film being negatively received?  Or did you feel a big sense of responsibility about being part of the movie?

JACK:  Initially I did feel a bit concerned but after I thought about it I thought what a fantastic thing, to be in a film that people are going to have opinions about.  Know what I mean?  Why shy away from that responsibility?  I found it a really freeing thing because I have always had the deepest respect for those Diggers and I thought the script was an excellent piece of storytelling that really went to the heart of the experience.  I thought because the script does all the work for me I’m going to throw myself into this, and in doing that hopefully also make a really good film that honours the memory of the Diggers.  I found all that responsibility and all the talk of it really positive energy. 

 

By Luke Buckmaster
Note: this interview has not been reproduced in its entirety